Thanks for your comprehensive reply, Clif. I already knew some of that, but your encyclopedic knowledge is impressive.
In my childish manner, I exported Wave files of the same song from BiaB using the different Roland and Coyote (both flavors) software. Damned if I can hear a difference. In the immortal words of Randy Newman, maybe I'm doing it wrong.
Ron Hanson
--- In Band-in-a-Box@yahoogroups.com, Clif Davis <clifton@...> wrote:
>
> Right, Ron, it's the Virtual Sound Canvas not the Hyper Canvas. My bad
> memory. Sorry.
>
> The Hyper Canvas stuck in memory because at one time I owned a computer
> where the built-in Microsoft synth sounded better if I lied to BIAB and told
> it I had a Hyper Canvas setup instead of the cheap Sound Card I actually
> had. I'm sure there was some logical reason, but who knows?
>
> The GM2 mode and GS mode are versions that comply with the GM2 and GS midi
> standards, both supersets of General Midi (GM).standard.
>
> The midi standard format says how the midi signals are formated, but doesn't
> say much about what they actually do. The GM standard gives a standard set
> of 128 instruments and also requires that the instruments actually respond
> to note velocity, support all 16 midi channels simultaneously with ch 10
> reserved for drums and other percussion, and allow simultaneous notes on
> each channel, and requires support of up to 24 active voices at a time.
>
> GS was Roland's improvement on GM. For GS the big improvement was the
> addition of multiple banks of instruments by standardizing on a set of
> bank-select control change signals. But other improvements were the
> specifications of 9 drum kits, 226 standard instruments and standard control
> change signals for portamento, sostenuto, and soft pedal.
>
> Roland wasn't the only one to extend the GM standard. Yamahah extended GM
> to an XG standard. (Actually XG, XG2 and XG3) Both GS and XG
> were proprietary and there was a desire for an open standard that would give
> some of the best of both extensions but maybe not go as far as XG. The
> result was General Midi 2 (GM2) which has 256 standard instruments, and
> included much of GS with 9 drum kits and variation banks, but also
> standardizes some sysex messages and adds more standard control change
> signals, allows two simultaneous drum kits on ch 10 and 11, and requires
> support for 32 simultaneous notes.
>
> There's actually a pretty significant difference between the Coyote
> WaveTable and Coyote Forte. The Coyote Wavetable goes back to the old idea
> of using a variation of additive synthesis taking a recording of a single
> period of a waveform and varying it using the built in capabilities of the
> sound card. My understanding is that Coyote Forte is based on the
> Gigasampler technology which is based on streaming sample data from your
> disk drive. Huge difference in the sound quality you can get with the two
> techniques. Gigasampler formated fonts can be massive.
>
> Clif
>
> On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Ronald Hanson <
> yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> > What's the difference (if any) between the Roland VSC DXi, the Roland VSC
> > DXi (GM2 mode) and the Roland VSC DXi (GS mode)?
> > Likewise, is there any difference between the Coyote WaveTable DXi and the
> > Coyote Forte DXi?
> > Thanx,
> > Ron Hanson
> >
> > --- In Band-in-a-Box@yahoogroups.com, Clif Davis <clifton@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:07 PM, ian <iantrdrummond@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wonder if anyone has ideas or opinions on
> > > > this one? Just bought a new computer, nothing
> > > > fancy and it comes with the Realtek HD
> > > > Audio Manager software. This appears to be a
> > > > software synth. It's fine for listening to
> > > > background music and through good speakers
> > > > is perfectly acceptable; BB can play through it
> > > > too. What I wondered was, is there anything
> > > > in software out there which might be better? If
> > > > I don't have to buy a sound card for this
> > > > backup machine so much the better. Thanks in
> > > > anticipation. Ian.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ian,
> > >
> > > Your computer apparently comes with a RealTek Semiconductor Corp High
> > > Definition sound card, of which a number of varieties are available.. It
> > > has a RealTek HD Audio Driver that should work just fine without needing
> > a
> > > ASIO driver to avoid latency. In fact using a real ASIO driver would
> > mean
> > > that you would no longer be able to access some of the special features
> > > available with your card. Most of these features are controlled with the
> > > RealTek Audio Manager software which is built to work with the RealTek HD
> > > Audio Driver.
> > >
> > > The Manual for the RealTek Audio Manager software is available in PDF
> > which
> > > you can find by doing a google search on "Realtek HD Audio Manager"
> > > documentation.
> > >
> > > The hardware/software combination has a number of impressive features.
> > It
> > > can handle stereo, quadraphonic, and even 5.1 channel and 7.1 channel set
> > > ups. It can compensate for the physical layout of the speakers
> > > and acoustic peculiarities of the room, do automatic bass management to
> > best
> > > use subwoofers and full range speakers present, do speaker fills to
> > create
> > > virtual surround sound from from a stereo source or in the other
> > direction
> > > can do headphone virtualization to create the illusion of a full theater
> > > system in your headphones. It can apply special effects such as
> > mimicking
> > > environments like a sewer pipe or a large auditorium. It can
> > > do equalization and has built in settings for Pop, Live, Club, and Rock.
> > > When the music is in stereo but the voice is recorded on both tracks, it
> > can
> > > do voice cancellation for Karaoke and additionally do key adjustment. It
> > can
> > > do tricks for recording as well such as automatic fixed noise suppression
> > > and can handle a great variety of sampling rates for both recording and
> > > playback with optimal settings for CD and DVDs. When you are recording
> > while
> > > listening to a playback, it can filter the playback out of the recording.
> > > Similarly, it can eliminate echo as when you are using Skype and the
> > person
> > > on the other end would otherwise hear when their voice is played into
> > your
> > > microphone.
> > >
> > > All of these capabilities will use the features of your sound card to do
> > > much of the work, leaving your computer's CPU free for other purposes.
> > > These capabilities are controlled from the RealTek Audio Manager
> > software.
> > >
> > > Notice that the RealTek Audio Manager software is not any kind of
> > software
> > > synth. The RealTek Audio manager does not contain a synth. For that
> > > matter, neither does the driver. It's somewhat unlikely, but certainly
> > not
> > > completely impossible, that the sound card contains a hardware synth.
> > > However, the Windows operating system (whether XP, Vista, or System 7)
> > does
> > > contain a synth built into the operating system.
> > >
> > > The good news is that with your sound card and a decent pair of speakers
> > the
> > > built-in Microsoft synth sounds just about as good as it's going to
> > sound.
> > > It is perfectly adequate to practice along with.
> > >
> > > The bad news is that really the built-in synth sucks. The evaluation of
> > > the sound quality of a synth is pretty subjective, but you are going to
> > get
> > > pretty universal agreement that, unless you are intentionally going after
> > a
> > > cheesy sound, the only way you can go downhill with the Microsoft synth
> > is
> > > to play it on tiny built in speakers.
> > >
> > > The good news is that PG Music throws in two free software synths with
> > any
> > > of their semi-annual upgrade packages and I suspect they may throw them
> > in
> > > with any copy of BIAB. These two synths are the Roland HyperCanvas and
> > the
> > > Coyote Wave Table. The HyperCanvas is better (in my subjective opinion)
> > but
> > > won't work with a 64-bit system. After installing, to use either requires
> > > checking the "Use VST/DXI Synth" option in the "Midi/Audio Drivers Setup"
> > > window of BiaB and selecting the desired synth from those available.
> > >
> > > Technically the two synths are being paid for as part of a package deal,
> > but
> > > since there is more than adequate reason for buying the packages without
> > the
> > > synths, considering them as free is not too much of a stretch. You will
> > > find either software synth to be a huge improvement over the built-in
> > synth
> > > and the best part is that you may already have these synths in the stuff
> > > you got from PG music.
> > >
> > > Can you do better yet with a free software synth? Yes indeed. You can
> > > find a free software synth on the Internet that can handle soundfonts and
> > > you can find many many free quality soundfonts hidden here and there on
> > the
> > > Internet. The days when soundfonts were cutting edge is long past, so
> > this
> > > stuff becomes harder and harder to find over time. Still I am reasonably
> > > confident that with a lot of time and effort you can wind up using a free
> > > software synth that you will like better than what you get from PG music.
> > > But the thing is, most of the stuff available for free isn't better and
> > > it's a lot of time and effort to invest. I'm not at all sure that the
> > > degree of improvement is worth the time and effort required.
> > >
> > > The alternative is to throw money at it. The bad news is that this is an
> > > open ended rat hole that will absorb however much money you care to toss
> > > into it. The good news is that you can probably find a synth that will
> > make
> > > you happy for somewhere between $200. and $1,000.00.
> > >
> > > If you're a real bargain hunter hunter that doesn't mind used or
> > > discontinued you might be able to bring it down as low as $100.00. If
> > you
> > > have no ethics against stealing and a high tolerance for risk you might
> > be
> > > able to find a cracked version of a high quality software synth for free
> > > along with a virus or three.
> > >
> > > I went the free soundfont route; it was educational. I wound up with two
> > > General Midi fonts I liked a lot with another half dozen special
> > instrument
> > > fonts that were really good and reasonably compatible with one of the
> > > General Midi fonts. The first time I threw money at the problem, buying
> > a
> > > Native Instruments software synth being discontinued for less that a
> > $100.,
> > > it blew what I had completely away. I don't even maintain the free stuff
> > > any more.
> > >
> > > To date I've invested around $400. in software synths and threw another
> > > $100. away and chalked it up to education. I anticipate sinking another
> > > $150. into it in the next three years.
> > >
> > > Once you start throwing money at the problem, there are a lot of
> > different
> > > hardware and software routes you can go. A lot of us are willing to share
> > > the route we took and a few of us are willing to share audio of the
> > results.
> > > Notably Bob Norton has a lot of MP3 files on his site
> > > showing off his styles, but also demonstrating the results of his process
> > of
> > > going from midi to audio.
> > >
> > > I have a Skydrive I'm not using for anything. I should put up some
> > samples
> > > of midi or BIAB files and audio. Dunno when I'll get to it though.
> > >
> > > Clif
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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